Onward Christian Sorcerers!

Agreed about Bryn Athyn — quite a place! Thanks for yet another interesting, thought-provoking reflection.

and lets never forge the Christian Scientists. They are just a whole pocket full of interesting ideas. Well, at least Science and Health is.

Several years ago I overcame my hurts with Christianity when I learned of Greek Orthodoxy and the ancient origins of the Christian Church. My partner comes from a Greek background, and the brunt of my spiritual practice and philosophy is Hellenic in nature, from the Goetic Pharmakos and Orphic Initiates to the Gnostics and Neo-Platonists. I realized that by denying Christianity, I was denying a huge portion of evolving Hellenic thought. The magic of the ancient world was preserved in Christianity and by Christian magicians. While we cannot ignore the atrocities committed by the institution of the Church, I feel that it is time to move past the blame and start embracing each other. Christianity made much more sense to me when viewed through a Pagan lens. I feel that there is a trend, or perhaps a magical current, wherein Pagans are getting more curious about the occultism and magic preserved by the Christian tradition.

Right on, Jason! The Jesus Prayer and Centering Prayer alone should be proof that Christianity has much to offer the working Sorcerer, and anyone who is using renaissance grimoires, hoodoo, pow-wow, et. al., and worrying about whether Christians ever used magic is just not paying attention.

Always been a bit put off by mainstream Christianity. At the same time I’ve felt a strong connections with Jesus. Slowly coming around the bend. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, quite illuminating.

Surely magic has been practiced or enacted by Christians. Natural History of Magic or Occult Philosophy (1692), by the Jesuit Hernando del Castrillo, a book that was approved by the Inquisition, and is also Marcilio Ficino, who was also a priest. Pico della Mirandolla and many others.

My first exposure to Christian magic was the Hexen painted for Pow-Wow, or Braucherei, back a few decades when I was in high school.

It’s the christians who told me I was a satanist.

I am too polite to argue.

“Narrowmindedrightwingfundamentalistbigots” tell me “You aren’t a real Christian unless you are exacly like us.”
“Openmindedliberalpagans” tell me “You aren’t a real Christian unless you are exactly like them.”

What is wrong with this picture?

As the token Swedenborgian, though, I think you are missing the point there. Swedenborg’s answer was “Don’t try this at home!”

Although I do not self-identify as ‘Christian’ any longer, I had no qualms over magic when I did, and I had not to neglect the biblical prohibitions either. I just tried to figure out what the prohibitions really meant.

‘Mageia’ and ‘pharmakeia’ are two different words in Greek. ‘Pharmakeia’ (harmful, and to a large degree drug-based – the word is related to ‘pharmacy’ – magic), is forbidden within the Christian paradigm, and the practitioners of it (‘pharmakoi’) are mentioned in very negative terms in Rev. 22.15, but ‘mageia’ is not mentioned at all in the parenetic parts of the New Testament. Magicians (‘magoi’) are mentioned however: They are described in positive terms as persons who brought gold, frankincense and myrrh to the Infant Jesus. If they existed historically (Sulpician Father Raymond E. Brown doubted it) they were probably Zoroastrian clergy.

A third Greek word, ‘goetes’ (related to the practice ‘goeteia’ which much later caused the title of Lemegeton part 1) is used pejoratively in 2Tim. 3.13, but with the implication that the practice doesn’t work, and that the ‘goetes’ is aware that he is an willful impostor. The verse can not be used honestly to blame a person who non-fraudulently practice self-defined goeteia in a beneficial way (if that is possible: the word ‘goeteia’ is tinged with a negative ring, but I suppose that that is up to the self-styled goës to determine).

A fourth word, ‘perierga’, used about the books burned by their owners in Ephesus, may be translated as ‘superstition’. Probably the books contained spells within a non-Jewish (and thereby non-Christian) paradigm. The author expects Christians to not practice non-Christian religions, but magic as such is not the issue: In the same chapter early Christians are using pieces of cloth to touch St. Paul and then touch persons with illnesses in order to cure them.

[…] In the funny way of these matters, whilst compiling the information and getting my thoughts in order, a number of things occurred. A few people up in the magical internets posted on the same topic -which basically never happens now that everyone is content to reblog poorly-spelled image memes on a pornography platform. And the topic they happened to post about was Jebus. Here, here and here. […]

If you have not already done so, check out Mark Townsends’ book Jesus through Pagan Eyes … not specifically about sorcery and Christianity, but an interesting insight (it contains several interviews, as well as essays by various magical folk about Jesus). Great blog <3

I’ve always said that Christianity has never existed. There is, and always has been, ChristianitIES. From the first stirrings of the early Jesus communities ideas about who Jesus was, what he taught, what his purpose was, etc. have varied widely from community to community. I’m a former Lutheran minister, and currently participate in a modern Gnostic community (the AJC). However, I very seldom use the word Christian to describe myself, even though I give value to, and participate in the Jesus mythology. I’m also a member of a BTW Wiccan coven, and participate in other pagan groups. So there are other deities I work with also. I often feel that I look at the Jesus story in a very “Pagan” way (And by that, I basically mean Neo-pagan, since that’s a more accurate label for my spirituality). I’m not Christo-Pagan. I don’t smoosh things together just to smoosh them together. I try to honor and understand the history and culture that practices, and the mythology surrounding them, have arisen from. And I admit that I shy away from the Christian label because it HAS come to mean something very specific in our modern American culture, and my theology is so vastly different from what most people think of when they think of Christianity. But truth be told, I am a follower of the Christ, but it certainly makes labels difficult.

[…] Jason Miller looks at how Christianity and magick are similar. (Strategic […]

Sorry, but after 2000 years of accumulated evidence, the verdict on Christianity is in, and it is not good. After all, it was Jesus who said, “by their fruits shall ye know them.” So you really can’t avoid associating yourself with “the fruits” of Christianity if you choose to take on that label.

Of course if you just want to play the game of “Christianity is whatever I want it to be,” then, thank the Gods, you now have the freedom to do that. But only because the Christian reign of terror was finally put to an end by the Enlightenment and subsequent advances in individual liberty, which have all come about in direct proportion to the precipitous decline of the power and influence of Christianity.

I love it when you pop on a blog and answer things with a “Sorry but no…” like you have some authority to have final opinion. We have had this conversation many times before on this blog and other places. Suffice to say that from where I stand:

1. Any religion, organization, or movement that numbers in the billions is going to have atrocities connected with it. It is simply human nature. Would ANY religion that included that many people turn out any different – no.

2. Christianity has done much good and continues to do so. If you want to get into weighing good vs bad I am sure we are going to have a different conclusion.

3. The myth that Christianity held back all science and freedom is just that – a myth. Did it in some ways? Yes, of course. Did it Did it freeze it through the “dark ages” as that famous graph suggests – no. That is complete BS and has been adequately argued against.

4. You cannot really speak of “Christianity” as a whole. It has been represented differently from the start. The Christianity of Paul is different from that of James, both of whom IMO differ from the essential meanings taught by Christ.

4. One of the curious paradoxes is that current conservative, sola scriptura, bible literalism is partially a result of the enlightenment itself. The loss of the idea of a mystery tradition, of myth having value as a type of truth, all contributed to people taking the bible literally in areas it was clearly not meant to be. Even Augustine did not beliece the world was created in 7 days, but Texas Republicans sure think so.

5. Even many Pagan oracles in the centuries following Christ commented that while the growing orthodox Christianity may be representing something bad, Christ himself and his teachings were solid. See Porphry from Oracles for examples of this.

You want to say that I cannot look at Christianity as good because evil has been done in its name, but I say that it is you who is making Christianity whatever you want it to be. I do not see a legacy of only good things, and my post above reflects that awareness. Your comment however shows an understanding that only sees ill. You are welcome to that view and I leave you to it. I have no doubt that the world has shown you a side of Christianity that deserves it. It has shown me a different side.

Don’t forget that Paganism, Atheism and Buddhism, being religions of millions, have been involved in some seriously dark and evil shit that has screwed up a lot of people. These folks [We] have the right to run as far away from those religions that have hurt them [us] or those they love as they see fit.
😉

As someone who identifies as Catholic – not the normal kind, obviously – I have to throw in my two cents that what an observer said is something that many people miss in their rush to get their hate on. The Khmer Rouge, for instance, identified as Buddhist, and the ancient Romans in all their glorious decadence were of course what we would call pagan. Unfortunately, you could list examples like this until you’re blue in the face, but most likely you’ll just get ignored.

The issue isn’t that there’s a problem with a given religious tradition in and of itself, it’s that people have been hurt by other people who claim membership in said tradition and can’t get past that. Instead of working through it in a mature way, though, they indulge in simplistic thinking for their solution. The world is a scary, complicated place filled with scary, complicated things, and “It seems like not everyone who ascribes to this philosophy is not, in fact, an asshole, so I should probably rearrange my criteria by which I judge things” is too much effort, so they just slap “asshole” on everyone they label a Christian and go from there. You find the same kind of thinking in, say, racial supremacist groups.

I don’t get indignant over people who don’t think Christianity is for them, but it’s very disheartening when I can count on people flipping their lid when they find out I go to church most Sundays… despite never having mistreated them at all.

I am currently reading “Grimoires: A History of Magic Books” by Owen Davies. I found it pretty hysterical to learn that while the church was constantly trying to crack down on occult texts and burn Grimoires it was mainly clergymen and priests whom were the main copiers and facilitators of the spread of the texts. Lol. 🙂

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